*SPOILERS* James as a person

[Lolli]

Seeing as SH2 seems to be the most popular game in the franchise, I was wondering what you guys thought of James' personality. He appears friendly enough but there's another side to him as evident by Mary's murder. Sure he claims it was because he was helping her but he also says it was because he was tired of looking after her.

I like James but I feel his underlying sexual fantasies are a bit, should I say, misogynystic. Maria being higly sexualised, the mannequin monsters. They all seem to be part of his darker side.

[AlexY]

I think he's plain weak. He says so, too. (He's a clerk, for crying out loud. Can't get more pathetic than that. )

Mary getting sick was just too much for him. I bet it took him a while to even step up to her, let alone propose.

It's funny, how he seems during the whole game... Somehow poetic. And then just does a 180° after room 312, of course. It really makes you admire the human complexity.

[Lolli]

I was pretty shocked when I discovered he'd killed Mary, I saw him in a whole new light afterwards, though despite everything I still can't bring myself to dislike him, he's just too nice (Apart from the whole smothering his wife thing).

[lemex]

I always thought of James as a bit stupid. And clearly lacking in co-ordination.
Ok ... maybe 'stupid' was too harsh a word, but he clearly is not the most intellectual of protagonists.

[The Crimson One]

I would agree. James always seemed a very weak willed character. At the same time though, think of everything he went through in the game! That would be rough! Yet he still seemed weak didn't he? He was never SURE. He didn't seem able to make a definite decision. Physically he was not impressive as you all know.

To believe he would kill Mary is hard. It would have to be a really deep psychological problem. IMHO of course! He just doesn't seem capable. He must have been in a really dark place. Ironic...

[lemex]

And thus; I believe, to be the point of the game.

He is not a very impressive person, and yet he did something that could be seen as both very evil (those who see it as murder) and very noble (someone who sees the act as euthanasia) and the whole point that there IS no right and wrong, only human perception.

Therein lies the genius of the game.

[katran]

I think James is just a normal guy, not necessarily any weaker or stronger than anyone else. He seems rather shy and hesitant, the way he interacts with the other characters. But he doesn't strike me as stupid. Not a genius, certainly, but not stupid.

He wouldn't be the first guy to snap when faced with the long-term illness and impending death of a loved one. I have no doubt he loved Mary very much, and watching her slowly waste away over 3 years must have been torture. Add to that the fact that he probably cared for her himself for a lot of that time, his own unfulfilled needs (not just sexual, but all of them in general), and it's easy to see how it just got to be too much for him.

I've always pitied him, even after learning about what he did to Mary. In fact, I think that made me feel even worse for him. He felt the guilt, even though he tried to repress it.


ETA: Edited to fix a semantics error. See one of my later posts for the reason.

[themightylebeau]

I hated James as a person for ages when I first played it. But as the game went on I found myself feeling sorry for him, until the end when the weirdest thing happened....
I started to see some of myself in the character.

For me this was the genius in the character, a true 'Everyman'. He just seems so harmless.

For me that was the scariest part of all.
(Please note I have NEVER smothered a loved one).

[katran]

I agree with you. An 'everyman', that fits James pretty well. I think that might have been part of the point of the game, that anyone can snap if the right pressure is applied (and of course, that pressure is different for everyone).

[Vio]

Really, I agree with the Everyman idea, he just seems to be regular guy dealing with a horrible reality considering his wife's illness (and his own personal needs).

James is my favorite protaganist because he is so flawed--and so human, and yes I can see aspects of myself in such a character. Just think of your own past experiences, it is easy to be noble and just when life is going well and makes sense. But, when it feels like everything falls apart or that we are being punished for no good reason, our own personal deeds become alot less noble.

(And yes I corrected the title of this thread, it was nagging at my OCD )

[Iram Et Dolorem]

Vio: I was wondering if you'd like to add Spoilers on the title. Just in case there are some who aren't acquainted to the title yet.

Anyways, I figured that Mr. James Sunderland would be one of those people who'd hardly register to your memory if you come across him in ordinary circumstances. An Everyman, as you guys put it. Indeed, it is appropriate.

Your typical guy coming to grips with his unusual situation, and such.

[Vio]

Mar 23, 2009 1:18:45 GMT Iram Et Dolorem said:

Vio: I was wondering if you'd like to add Spoilers on the title. Just in case there are some who aren't acquainted to the title yet.

Good idea, done.

[Lolli]

Thanks Vio, my inability to spell was nagging me too.

For me this was the genius in the character, a true 'Everyman'. He just seems so harmless.

I think James is made even more mentally unstable after he kills Eddie. He couldn't remember killing Mary so killing Eddie was like reliving the shock of murdering a human all over again.
If he ever did escape SH he'd have to be pretty strong to pick up the pieces.

[EileenGalvin]

Mar 17, 2009 18:12:52 GMT katran said:

I think James is just a normal guy, not necessarily any weaker or stronger than anyone else. He seems rather shy and hesitant, the way he interacts with the other characters. But he doesn't strike me as stupid. Not a genius, certainly, but not stupid.

He wouldn't be the first guy to snap when faced with the long-term illness and impending death of a loved one. I have no doubt he loved Mary very much, and watching her slowly waste away over 3 years must have been torture. Add to that the fact that he probably cared for himself for a lot of that time, his own unfulfilled needs (not just sexual, but all of them in general), and it's easy to see how it just got to be too much for him.

I've always pitied him, even after learning about what he did to Mary. In fact, I think that made me feel even worse for him. He felt the guilt, even though he tried to repress it.

Wow, someone who actually shares the same view about James as I do.
I don't think James was a bad or in any other way extraordinary guy either. Just a normal guy, caught up in a lot of shit.

[katran]

Thanks Eileen.


And I just realized I made a stupid mistake in the post you quoted. The part that says, "...he probably cared for himself for a lot of that time..." should have said "...he probably cared for her himself for a lot of that time..."

I was trying to imply that if he was busy taking care of his wife and doing things for her that she could no longer do for herself, then he most likely wasn't able to do things for himself that needed to be done. That's extremely common in spouse-caregiver situations, and it can be incredibly draining as well as emotionally and mentally damaging for the spouse who is the caregiver.

I went back and fixed it.