divinityofdeath
Creeper
Robbie The Rabbit Is Watching You
Dont Let The Smile Fool You He Is Actually Wondering What To do With Your Body
Posts: 45
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Post by divinityofdeath on May 18, 2009 23:52:20 GMT
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Post by Kiryū Kazuma on May 31, 2009 10:38:03 GMT
Yeah reimaging I guess but I do agree on what you have said
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katran
Lying Figure
Deadly Blessing
Pyramid Head is my boyfriend
Posts: 398
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Post by katran on Jul 28, 2009 23:00:19 GMT
I don't agree that the Butcher was put in for PH fan service. If that were the case, he would look a lot more like PH.
However, I do believe that PH and the Butcher are meant to be related in some way. If PH represents James's guilt and desire to be punished for his sins, the Butcher most likely has a similar meaning for Travis. Travis's mother was locked up because she tried to kill him. His father committed suicide because he couldn't live without his wife. Children often feel guilt, no matter how misplaced, over what happens to their parents or what their parents do (it's classic in divorce cases).
The "bad" ending adds even more guilt to Travis's psyche, and it could be this guilt that the Butcher represents.
So while I agree with you that the Butcher was not necessarily meant to be fan service in regards to PH, I do think that the game creators deliberately created a PH-like figure, perhaps to tie in with the psychological implications of earlier games.
PH's appearance in Homecoming was far more of a fan service, though I do think he fits there and I loved seeing him again. Same with the movie.
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Sindaiin
Nurse
Lakeside Amusement Park Curator
Posts: 206
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Post by Sindaiin on Sept 22, 2009 21:12:08 GMT
With Katran on that one to a point. True, The Butcher did need to exist, but why make him resemble PH at all? Why THE BUTCHER? They could've made him some buff without a face that tore sh*t apart with his hands, right? I think they realized since PH was so iconic amongst the fans they made The Butcher have similar features. The early drafts... quite possibly too similar. If anyone recalls, the original weapon looked an awful lot like PH's Great Knife. If you guys check out the old Butcher wallpapers on the official sites, you'll see it.
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katran
Lying Figure
Deadly Blessing
Pyramid Head is my boyfriend
Posts: 398
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Post by katran on Sept 22, 2009 22:27:54 GMT
I think it's possible that the Butcher resembles PH for the same reason James sees PH in SH2: the picture of the executioner.
Travis lived in Silent Hill as a child and most likely saw the picture of the executioner (which translates for James as PH) at the Historical Society. But as it appears Travis left Silent Hill at a very young age, his memory of the picture was probably very fuzzy, hence he sees a slightly different version of the executioner than James, who has seen the picture far more recently.
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Post by dreggnog on Sept 22, 2009 22:32:26 GMT
I believe 100% that The Butcher is a complete ripoff of Pyramid Head and I am shocked that there is anyone on Earth who doesn't agree.
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katran
Lying Figure
Deadly Blessing
Pyramid Head is my boyfriend
Posts: 398
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Post by katran on Sept 22, 2009 22:44:37 GMT
Ah, good. I love shocking people, lol!
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Post by dreggnog on Sept 22, 2009 22:49:24 GMT
Hehheh, admittedly good resonse.
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Post by AlexY on Sept 22, 2009 22:53:51 GMT
Travis lived in Silent Hill as a child- Hubbawha-? I didn't get that impression at all. Close by, maybe, but in Silent Hill specifically? No. Why did they stay in a hotel then? :? He obviously visited SH to see his mother, possibly several times before the incident. His father afterwards committed suicide. Travis was just standing there, watching his father's corpse, his rotting meat hanging and reeking. And, as any kid trying to keep his sanity, a part of him knew it was his fault. He slaughtered his father, like a butcher slaughters his meat. It's kid psychology 101 - kids always blame themselves first for any major disruptions in the family, which leads to problems in their adulthood. Ergo, The Butcher.
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katran
Lying Figure
Deadly Blessing
Pyramid Head is my boyfriend
Posts: 398
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Post by katran on Sept 22, 2009 22:56:43 GMT
Hehheh, admittedly good resonse. Oh good. I worried a bit after I posted it that you might think I was being snotty, and I'm really not trying to be. I was trying to be tongue in cheek. Travis lived in Silent Hill as a child- Hubbawha-? I didn't get that impression at all. Close by, maybe, but in Silent Hill specifically? No. Why did they stay in a hotel then? :? Wasn't there a Silent Hill newspaper article about Travis's mother trying to kill him? I doubt that would have been in their paper unless the family lived in Silent Hill or very close by. And I seem to remember Travis or someone else mentioning that Travis used to live there. Either way, if he spent time in Silent Hill, visiting his mother or otherwise, it's very likely he visited the Historical Society at some point and saw the picture of the executioner.
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Father Vincent
Lying Figure
What's wrong? You don't trust me?
Shuwatch!
Posts: 367
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Post by Father Vincent on Sept 27, 2009 18:04:39 GMT
I believe 100% that The Butcher is a complete ripoff of Pyramid Head and I am shocked that there is anyone on Earth who doesn't agree. The Butcher was inspired by Pyramid Head, sure. But I wouldn't say he's a ripoff. He's a different character, there for a different reason. Anyways, some people used to wonder similarly about Valtiel when they saw him dragging Heather away.
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katran
Lying Figure
Deadly Blessing
Pyramid Head is my boyfriend
Posts: 398
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Post by katran on Sept 27, 2009 19:32:10 GMT
Anyways, some people used to wonder similarly about Valtiel when they saw him dragging Heather away. And doesn't the Book of Lost Memories say that if you removed PH's helmet, he and Valtiel would share a striking similarity? I do believe that PH, the Butcher and Valtiel are all connected. They are not rip-offs of each other, but they all have their roots in the same town mythos. And I would not be surprised if there are other, similar, connected characters that we simply have not met yet.
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Post by dreggnog on Sept 27, 2009 23:12:02 GMT
Valtiel walks on all fours, does not carry a big sword, and his head twitches. The Butcher walks upright and carries a big sword. The Butcher is ten times the ripoff of Pyramid Head that Valtiel ever was (and I never really saw a resembelance, I really just can't see Pyramid Head turning any valves or helping the main character. That would just be weird.
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katran
Lying Figure
Deadly Blessing
Pyramid Head is my boyfriend
Posts: 398
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Post by katran on Sept 28, 2009 0:29:38 GMT
Valtiel walks on all fours.... I saw him walk upright most of the time. And he wears an apron similar to that of both PH and the Butcher. Like I said, it is the Book of Lost Memories, which is considered official by most fans, which states the resemblance between PH and Valtiel. Yet no one is screaming rip-off about that.
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Post by AlexY on Sept 28, 2009 9:11:17 GMT
Valtiel is just found most of the time in vents or on sticky celings. (Yeesh.)
All of them; PH, Meatboy, ValvyValty are 'angels' in their own twisted way. Valtiel is just the most obvious one.
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