|
|
Post by zombienm on Aug 27, 2010 18:58:31 GMT
Massive spoilers in this thread, so if you haven't beaten the game, don't continue reading.
Since the ending reveals that Harry is actually just a memory of Cheryl, does that mean the rest of the game never actually happened? Or was Harry really interacting with the towns people? Because Cybil knew he was dead and seemed extremely confused about the whole deal, and if she wasn't real, I don't see why she would be confused. I almost feel like Cheryl's memory of him became real and made his way to her. But that also brings up the question of why the doctor didn't see him.
Some theories I've read is that all the characters are just tools of Dr Kauffman, like Cybil as the cop to 'piece together the clues', Lisa to help Cheryl deal with death, and Michelle to help her face the end of a relationship.
So what do you think? Do you think the memory of Harry took a real form and interacted with people through Silent Hill, or was it all simply a figment of Cheryl's imagination?
Also, if it was real, what did Cybil see every time Harry would enter the ice world right in front of her? Would he simply vanish or what?
|
|
|
|
Post by AlexY on Aug 28, 2010 1:38:42 GMT
It was most definitely all in Cheryl's mind. There is no more plausible explanation.
Cybil's role is like Cheryl's conscience - she follows Harry and keeps him safe, while preparing him for the inevitable truth with hints and clues. She may well be a mother figure ideal in Cheryl's eyes, a counterpart to Dahlia.
Michelle is Cheryl's role model (from high school?), the opposite of what she is. She is also there for 'Harry' to see how she would cope with a break-up, ergo, how Cheryl should/ should not act when realising the truth.
Dahlia is, obviously, a demonised mother figure. Instead of seeing her as she really is, Cheryl twists her image to her own misconceptions and twisted sense of guilt to make her look guilty for Harry's death, so she can avoid putting the blame on herself.
If you're into Freudean psychology:
Michelle = Superego
Cybil = Ego
Dahlia = Id
'Harry' is merely a coping mechanism for Cheryl's traumatised mind. She got into loads of problems because of Harry's death, which eventually lead to breaking almost all ties with Dahlia, leaving her alone in her delusions... Note that Cheryl quite possibly did drugs, killed someone, seriously thought of suicide... This all factors in.
According to your gameplay, there are several variations, but the main point is the same - Cheryl at one point or another went through severe trauma and reverted back to being little Cheryl that needs her Daddy. It's a safe haven. That's why Raw Shocks impede your progress, and that's why 'Harry' - the player - serves as an unseen force of the mind to deal with the shock and mend the situation, whether Cheryl wishes it or not.
|
|
|
|
Post by blacky on Aug 31, 2010 16:34:53 GMT
Well the thing that gets me is that in the game Harry's orginal house is now owned by new owners, surely if it was all in Cheryl's mind the new owners woulden't exist and Harry would still be livng there.
You could theorize that the new members exist to help Cheryl on her path to accept Harry's death but the thing is that Kaufman's conversation before this scene didn't reflect that. By having Cheryl colour her perfect home surly he was just probing her mindset, not yet questioning it. So if the whole thing was in her mind then Harry shoulden't of met the new owners
|
|
|
|
Post by AlexY on Aug 31, 2010 21:05:43 GMT
Well the thing that gets me is that in the game Harry's orginal house is now owned by new owners, surely if it was all in Cheryl's mind the new owners woulden't exist and Harry would still be livng there. It's a memory. It *was* their house - Harry dies, Dahlia breaks down and works in a pawn shop and they live in that small apartment later on (Love Lost, Drunk Dad and Sleazy ending - in the Wicked and Weak they're already living in the pawn shop together for a while because they're poor and can't live off of Harry's writing, and Dahlia's a bitch anyway). Her childhood is there - that's why 'Harry' thinks it's home - it's safe, that's where Cheryl is. The thing is, she's not, and her brain knows this, so 'Harry' is confused to see some other people living there. Simple, really. |
|
|
|
Post by zombienm on Sept 1, 2010 0:16:42 GMT
It's quite difficult for me to imagine that the whole game was fake. I mean with the new house residents, Cybil's genuine confusion near the end, and more, it really seemed like things were really happening, albeit in perfect harmony with Cheryl's memories.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lolli on Sept 4, 2010 20:59:56 GMT
Cybil is confused because Harry is coming to the end of his journey. Cybil knows everything Cheryl does and as Cheryl discovers the truth of Harry's death so does Cybil, that's why she mentions the fact that Harry Mason died 18 years ago, it's as though Cheryl uses her to as a means of coping with the realization. She can't tell herself so she gets Cybil to do it for her.
|
|
|
|
Post by blacky on Sept 14, 2010 2:34:02 GMT
Well that's the werid thing though, if everything happened in Cheryl's head. then that means the game has absoutely nothing to do with the town, and shoulden't even be called Silent hill really. I know the town's presance has been declining as the games went on, but at least the events could be traced back to it. But here there's nothing special about the town at all
It's abit like the new karate kid movie, which doesn't have karate in it
|
|
|
|
Post by AlexY on Sept 14, 2010 14:50:30 GMT
Well that's the werid thing though, if everything happened in Cheryl's head. then that means the game has absoutely nothing to do with the town, and shoulden't even be called Silent hill really. I know the town's presance has been declining as the games went on, but at least the events could be traced back to it. But here there's nothing special about the town at all Yes, here Silent Hill is just a location, true. But it fits for a "reimagining." |
|
|
|
Post by blacky on Sept 19, 2010 1:43:47 GMT
Talking of which, is the next game surpposed to be the same setting as Shattered Memories? If so they are going to have to come up with something freash to carry it on because if they don't the 'It's all in a character's head' story will quickly replace 'the Cult' as the overused story arc, and I don't want to go down that road again
|
|
|
|
Post by AlexY on Sept 19, 2010 17:54:17 GMT
Talking of which, is the next game surpposed to be the same setting as Shattered Memories? If so they are going to have to come up with something freash to carry it on because if they don't the 'It's all in a character's head' story will quickly replace 'the Cult' as the overused story arc, and I don't want to go down that road again I doubt it's going to be the same SH we saw in Shattered Memories. SM is an experiment and IMHO not canon at all. I hope the next installment will be much like SH2 - it fits to the overall mythos but stands on its own. |
|
patient
Nurse
 SHF Theorist '10
Rusted Syringe
Posts: 179
|
Post by patient on Oct 11, 2010 23:13:32 GMT
It's quite difficult for me to imagine that the whole game was fake. I mean with the new house residents, Cybil's genuine confusion near the end, and more, it really seemed like things were really happening, albeit in perfect harmony with Cheryl's memories. And it's entirely impossible for me to believe much of it, if any of it except perhaps high school, was real. None of it really fits with the original plot. I view the game as a sort of virtual retelling of everything. It's a fascinating game, and I like to view everything as basically not real. |
|
|
|
Post by mr. worncoat on Nov 29, 2010 22:32:48 GMT
One thing to always keep in mind is that Cheryl's take on this whole course of events comes from multiple sources that she might not have gotten directly, herself. For instance, it was mentioned about her old house. Recall that Douglas had been initially contracted to find her. Wouldn't it have made sense for him to case out Harry's old neighborhood in Silent Hill?
A lot of anything that happened in her head is up for discussion, it all being subject to that single point that, with whatever information she had, it was all peices that were given free reign to come together to make the best picture possible. Interestingly enough, the brain does this on a normal basis, the entire game being a slight exaggeration on that.
With individual people, who knows. The new owners of the house may have been neighbors replaced to fit what Douglas may have told her. The prom girl maybe an old friend or recollection from Harry himself. Dahlia, who would've been more difficult to place, may have been split up in an effort to single out her characteristics and what role she played in anything, with the younger version likely getting thrown together with somebody who, again, may have known Heather in her high school stints. She and Harry were always moving, it's not like she didn't have a splatter of friendly faces to go and try to tack onto faceless names.
Kaufmann is one of the only two people we get a solid look at, and that might be saying something. I'd be the first to say he's a prime candidate for being her real papa. That Cheryl used him as her main anchor only cements that for me. Cybil is the other one. She gets an active, detailed role because, the way I see it, the proper ending in SH1 is that she escapes with Harry and Cheryl. As to whether Cybil took the place of mother is up for conjecture, although I would say that she probably was instrumental in hiding the two, if not protecting them and actively watching over as mommy in one form or another. To say a little more, the way she treats Harry, in Cheryl's memory may show that she ended up leaving Harry and Cheryl because of an issue with Harry. Or maybe she ended up disappearing for some more unfortunate reason. Thoughts?
|
|
