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Post by Lolli on Sept 29, 2009 16:46:42 GMT
It's assumed James saw the painting beforehand whilst on vacation with Mary, it certainly makes sense considering PH couldn't even be born without James. Only James can see him and so he projected this painting of the town executioner into a physical form in order to punish him.
The butcher is totally different. The butcher represents what travis could/will become. The most obvious answer as to why he's called the butcher is because, in the bad ending, Travis butchers a woman to death. Unlike PH, Travis holds no real guilt, he probably blames himself for what happened to his parents but defeating their monster representations signifies he's overcome that step. I'd say the butcher was born from Travis' bad childhood. It's often said that children can develop psychological problems due to bad childhoods and having all these pent up feelings of his past have probably damaged him mentally.
I guess the butcher is there as an inner demon the player has to overcome. It's up to them to decide Travis' fate, whether he overcomes his past or whether he embraces his dark feelings. Sort of like a foreshadowing.
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katran
Lying Figure
Deadly Blessing
Pyramid Head is my boyfriend
Posts: 398
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Post by katran on Sept 29, 2009 17:17:19 GMT
I still don't approve of the idea that Travis also saw the Misty Day painting or anything similar. His psyche divided, which is (very obviously) shown with the Butcher's design - if PH in SH2 represents James' *fully formed guilt*, regardless whether it's subconscious or not, then the Butcher represents Travis' *forming psychosis* - half of him is a probable maniac, half is a lost child. Look closely at the Butcher's half-helmet and imagine the other half there. What do you get? Valtiel has no need for any of these since he needs to *watch* Heather (or, to be more specific, the unborn God), he is no real threat to her or from her, but he *is* stemming from the same root like PH and Butcher - a physical manifestation of the town's latent power. So yah, The Butcher is fine by me. I'd never thought of it that way. I think you've come up with a great theory there. It sure makes sense to me. Travis DOES see the Misty Day painting in Alessa's house. He pretty much ignores it because the house is sort of on fire. I'd forgotten about that. Not necessarily true. James and Mary had visited SH in the past. The general consensus among fans is that they most likely visited the Historical Society, where James saw the painting. Because he has blocked out what really happened with Mary, he has also forgotten about the painting. In the case of PH in SH2, James's sub-conscious creates PH out of James's guilt, and it couldn't have used that form of PH unless he had previously seen it. I think this is an excellent comment. The butcher is totally different. The butcher represents what travis could/will become. The most obvious answer as to why he's called the butcher is because, in the bad ending, Travis butchers a woman to death. Unlike PH, Travis holds no real guilt, he probably blames himself for what happened to his parents but defeating their monster representations signifies he's overcome that step. I'd say the butcher was born from Travis' bad childhood. It's often said that children can develop psychological problems due to bad childhoods and having all these pent up feelings of his past have probably damaged him mentally. I guess the butcher is there as an inner demon the player has to overcome. It's up to them to decide Travis' fate, whether he overcomes his past or whether he embraces his dark feelings. Sort of like a foreshadowing. I like what you've said as well, though I can't agree that Travis holds no guilt. He's definitely disturbed by the events of his childhood, and children often manifest guilt upon themselves for what their parents did or what happened to their parents, even if it's not their fault at all (I know my oldest daughter blamed herself for her dad's and my divorce for years, even though she was only 3 when we separated and 4 when we divorced). And if Travis IS a serial killer, then he probably does feel some guilt, even if it is deeply buried. Most serial killers know that what they are doing is wrong, but they feel compelled to keep doing it. They have guilt, but they just can't make themselves stop. Of course, we're assuming that Travis's mental patterns follow the norms for real-world people (even disturbed ones).
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Post by Tabris on Sept 30, 2009 16:18:49 GMT
I suppose that's possible that they did see the painting before. It's completely logical which may account for things like the obsidian goblet and white chrism etc that he finds here and there. That stuff is used in the ceremonies to resurrect god I believe.
However, I'm not quite convinced yet that he seen it before. I kinda feel that the picture was there to intimidate him and offer a form of insight into what he was dealing with.
But if he did see it before and that's what created PH, than that could definitely be how The Butcher was created for Travis. Since he only seen the Misty Days painting briefly, that could explain his appearance.
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divinityofdeath
Creeper
Robbie The Rabbit Is Watching You
Dont Let The Smile Fool You He Is Actually Wondering What To do With Your Body
Posts: 45
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Post by divinityofdeath on Oct 19, 2009 15:33:19 GMT
I am sorry..ive been away and I just noticed my first post didint explain alot. I think they are nothing alike becuase of SH:0 bad ending. If you see it it shows *spoiler waring* that travis is the butcher and that the reason he cant sleep and why he cant remember his childhood is because after his parents deaths he turned into a killer and start carving people up. And thats why its a butcher. The butcher is a mirror of himslef, or the side of him that he doesent know about. yes this is alot like PH and james but...it was by a new company, I give them props for a good atempt at a silent hill game. sorry for typos im in a rush.
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Post by mr. worncoat on Mar 31, 2011 1:11:31 GMT
Isn't it possible that the Butcher and Pyramid Head aren't just related but may in fact be one in the same? As in, Pyramid Head is an evolved form of the Butcher? Samael and Valtiel were manifested based off of preconceived ideas, and ran wild. The Butcher/Pyramid Head may be related to a single original idea that came into its own.
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